tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post912652930328490552..comments2023-11-05T23:07:01.842+11:00Comments on Grog's Gamut: Labor PM in Favour of Jobs (or “Oh, the betrayal”)Greg Jerichohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04956402439870441083noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-15073461236783174272011-05-09T22:40:36.505+10:002011-05-09T22:40:36.505+10:00Fantastic! That'll learn me to rely on what ma...Fantastic! That'll learn me to rely on what mainstream media says. You are a freaking legend Grog :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-91822414096080795132011-04-20T21:01:59.345+10:002011-04-20T21:01:59.345+10:00Wow, thanks for all your insight. I am a support w...Wow, thanks for all your insight. I am a support worker with homeless families and most people rely on welfare payments to survive. we have another team that is part of the government's Participate in Prosperity program ( not sure if this Qld. or C'wealth) but these programs promote, education, training or employment in a very hands on way. They can transport people, support them to get ID, enrol in TAFE, get children into childcare etc. all which contribute to employment. Its so amazing to see people get lifted u and be able to participate in society in a different way other than being welfare recipients. Work, education, training are so valuable to people, they build us, involve us in life. My sister just sent me this blog bc I was getting so sick of everyone just randomly criticising this government for what I felt was no good reason, just picking up on 'the vibe'. I am so sick of it! <br />cheers for your time on this great project you have going here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-85023455741922670162011-04-16T15:02:52.401+10:002011-04-16T15:02:52.401+10:00Thanks KimThanks KimGreg Jerichohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04956402439870441083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-10877137445347290602011-04-16T14:05:20.946+10:002011-04-16T14:05:20.946+10:00I just wanted to apologise for the personalised co...I just wanted to apologise for the personalised comment at the end of my post linking to this one. I'm sorry, I was very angry about this whole issue, but I ought not to have got personal. I'm deleting that portion of the post.<br /><br />- Kim from LPKimhttp://larvatusprodeo.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-11420320452560696852011-04-16T14:03:46.072+10:002011-04-16T14:03:46.072+10:00This comment has been removed by the author.Mark Bahnischhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07363898575719314889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-40576497194427034112011-04-16T13:44:56.687+10:002011-04-16T13:44:56.687+10:00I only just found your blog. I love it, and will b...I only just found your blog. I love it, and will be a regular reader. I'd like to how you find the time to provide such well-researched comment - I'd love to be able to find the time to do this! But, for now, I'll use your insight as a means to further my own research on current events and affairs.<br /><br />I'd also like to know why some newspaper editor has not employed some of your work; but, on reflection, I already know the answer to that.<br /><br />Thank you.Steve.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-69258008657467023562011-04-15T20:27:58.611+10:002011-04-15T20:27:58.611+10:00Those interested in the Danish model should google...Those interested in the Danish model should google "flexicurity"<br /><br />This is a reasonable summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FlexicurityPeter Whitefordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-49560026086609285062011-04-15T15:22:28.982+10:002011-04-15T15:22:28.982+10:00Thanks for that, Grog.
I'm with you Grog. I s...Thanks for that, Grog.<br /><br /><i>I'm with you Grog. I suspect middle class welfare will be a target.</i><br /><br />About bloody time. Possibly Howard's worst political, economic and social legacy, the legitimisation and extension of middle class welfare (ie vote buying).<br /><br /><i>“the Government will put improving work incentives in our tax and transfer system” <br /><br />is about cuts only if you want to read it is about cuts - which the media and many others did.</i><br /><br />Exactly. It could also have been referring to changes that reduce the huge tax-welfare hurdle that recipients face when trying to move off welfare. Let's wait and see, shall we?<br /><br /><i>I've been in and out of the welfare system for twenty years and I can tell when the Powers that Be are getting ready to tighten the screw. People on disability pensions are going to be in for a lashing.</i><br /><br />This is the real danger. <br /><br /><i>Increasing employment is therefore one of the most effective ways of reducing poverty and inequality in Australia.</i><br /><br />For those who can realistically work.<br /><br /><i>I am all in favour of mutual responsibility and more education but it is how you implement that with the most vulnerable in society that is the key. Labor does not have a good record in this regard.</i><br /><br />Well said. They have some serious baggage here.<br /><br /><i>There was the statement that "We know that not everyone on a welfare benefit can work. Some bear disabilities or caring responsibilities that mean paid work is impossible."</i><br /><br />Good catch. Does that mean the disabled will be required to at least do some unpaid work?Bongonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-51071212642482215562011-04-15T14:36:07.197+10:002011-04-15T14:36:07.197+10:00Perhaps Professor Whiteford could describe the Dan...Perhaps Professor Whiteford could describe the Danish system for us or alternatively provide a link to an informative website.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-78208298856478904072011-04-15T10:51:43.457+10:002011-04-15T10:51:43.457+10:00We will have to wait and see as to how Julia Gilla...We will have to wait and see as to how Julia Gillard's rhetoric/language translates into action at Budget time. I am all in favour of mutual responsibility and more education but it is how you implement that with the most vulnerable in society that is the key. Labor does not have a good record in this regard. They were the ones who introduced 'breeching' for people on benefits who did not turn up for appointments, and the penalties were loss of benefits for a number of weeks, which was excessive. (Nothing wrong with penalties per se but the size of them for someone on a very low income was unbelievable). Gillard's speech was better than Abbott's but it was condescending at points and it mostly only recognised paid work as a contribution towards the community. There was no talk of equipping those on benefits for unpaid caring and voluntary roles. There was the statement that 'We know that not everyone on a welfare benefit can work.<br />Some bear disabilities or caring responsibilities that mean paid work is impossible. These Australians deserve our greatest respect and ongoing support'.<br />I suspect the ongoing support means ongoing benefits only, and does not mean support for fuller participation in the life of their community. <br />There was also reference by Gillard to the enormous financial disincentive to paid work that arises from the structure of our benefits system. But I will be very surprised if anything significant happens on that in this budget. <br />So until we see the new programs, I will reserve judgement as to whether Gillard is just Howard-lite in this speech.Johncanberranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-63329600339378317682011-04-15T09:32:15.543+10:002011-04-15T09:32:15.543+10:00The thing that distressed me most about the report...The thing that distressed me most about the reporting of this speech was the vitriolic attack, similar to that of lapuntadelfin here, from the Naysayers of the Left, who appear to be getting even more caustic in their assessment of the PM than those from the Right, who will always find an angle to attack the ALP government from. They are such fools I think because they are helping to do the Right's job for them and they are too blinkered in their idealism for some glorious ALP past, which never really existed, but which tends to coagulate around the supposed Whitlam glory years, to see that an ALP government, "Is not the party of Welfare, but the party of work". As it always has been.<br /> You wouuldn't believe the storm of invective I, and the PM who I was defending, copped on Twitter yesterday after this speech became public news. And yes, most of it came from the Left. Jeremy Sear was especially scathing, though Bernard Keane and David Paris made a feeble attempt at humiliating me as well. All I was doing was what you have done, except in 140 characters or less, so as to not let the horse bolt on the true nature of the speech.<br /> Frankly, I think some of these Twitter habitues, who seem to have all day to Tweet, are exactly the 'idle' that the PM wishes to target. And they are squealing like stuck pigs, as a result. Well, I am one of the people the PM would like to help get a job, over 50(not much!), out of the workforce for >10 years, and lacking new skills, so I just hope that she means it and means well when she intimates that she wants to help people like me get a job and a bit of dignity back. Because I sure as hell know the bitter taste of rejection that comes with applying for job after job in your chosen field of endeavour, and being told you are too expensive to employ because you are an adult with a degree and the accountant has advised against it.Hillbilly Skeletonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-81501638970014091962011-04-15T09:14:03.283+10:002011-04-15T09:14:03.283+10:00Joblessness - not having paid employment - is the ...Joblessness - not having paid employment - is the largest single factor contributing to poverty among people of working age, and is also one of the major factors contributing to the level of inequality in Australia.<br /><br />Increasing employment is therefore one of the most effective ways of reducing poverty and inequality in Australia.<br /><br />Now you can get more people in jobs in regressive ways (think welfare reform in the USA) but you can also get more people in jobs in progressive ways - think Denmark.<br /><br />Let's wait and see what the specific proposals are.Peter Whitefordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-15967862777955903852011-04-15T08:41:18.168+10:002011-04-15T08:41:18.168+10:00Well done Grog, glad I was not the the only one wh...Well done Grog, glad I was not the the only one who heard a different speech to what was reported. I was enthused by it but then saw all the headlines - I began to second guess my own political persuasion. There was nothing in the speech I was worried about, it was consistent with all other speeches from Gillard on the topic.thirdbornnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-39212655007568710872011-04-15T08:25:52.636+10:002011-04-15T08:25:52.636+10:00I don't suppose there will be any money in the...I don't suppose there will be any money in the budget to teach journalists English comprehension? Too many dog whistlers, and not enough whistle blowers.Jaegernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-89663802756605584752011-04-15T08:01:31.232+10:002011-04-15T08:01:31.232+10:00The only reference I had heard to Gillards speech ...The only reference I had heard to Gillards speech yesterday was the TV news and ABC radio, and I hung my head in shame that Gillard would head down that path. Thanks Grog for setting the record straight ;)<br /><br />Tom RAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-57085478447878693692011-04-15T07:16:12.264+10:002011-04-15T07:16:12.264+10:00Hi grog, first I must admit I enjoy listening to t...Hi grog, first I must admit I enjoy listening to the PM's speeches, so I watched her on News24. So when I read the next days news headlines, I didn't bother reading the articles.<br />Her speech was a continuation of her themes education, skills training and dignity that work offers.<br />At one stage she talked about meeting someone from her electorate, who was a flyin flyout employee in WA.This person was a skilled employee. She linked his story with that of unemployed youth in WA and stated, that the question was how to train the youth unemployed so that they would have the same skills and therefore the opportunity to apply for these jobs. <br />The PM was not about putting people down, not about bullying, not about labels. <br />So we will just have to see what is in the budget.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-77212363400614082442011-04-15T05:32:53.166+10:002011-04-15T05:32:53.166+10:00I've been in and out of the welfare system for...I've been in and out of the welfare system for twenty years and I can tell when the Powers that Be are getting ready to tighten the screw. People on disability pensions are going to be in for a lashing.<br /><br />Keep an eye on the suicide rate around budget time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-24649873141451510812011-04-14T23:55:44.997+10:002011-04-14T23:55:44.997+10:00Thanks for the breakdown, Grog, and for the reassu...Thanks for the breakdown, Grog, and for the reassurance that I was listening to the same speech as yourself, and presumably the same speech that journos are commenting on. And the very same speech that people working with the disabled and their carers heard before they commented 'on camera' with such concern, even fear, for the future of those unwillingly on welfare - or had they been fed loaded questions?<br /><br />I don't know if JG is trying to steal the Coalition's clothes, but Abbott sounded very hollow as he protested that he had made the same speech earlier, only he has real policies, JG hasn't. Well, we'll see.<br /><br />As others have pointed out it's astonishing how selectively some people, and journalists in particular, listen to speeches like that. They hear what they want to hear and then write the commentary they already had in mind before they heard it.<br /><br />An aside - apart from PM Julia Gillard being the kind of Labor leader I can recognise from over a half century ago I see her developing a very warm, even maternal, image. Anyone noticed how comfortable she is around kids and easy among people generally?Patricia WAhttp://polliepomesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-39170162997231114342011-04-14T23:51:21.593+10:002011-04-14T23:51:21.593+10:00Calling BS on you here Grogs. No-one underestimate...Calling BS on you here Grogs. No-one underestimates the power of a catchphrase in a speech and both you and Gillard ignore that the SI speech exists not in isolation but in context. JG knows context. She is building it. And there are more speeches to come.<br /><br />Observers like yourself and Possum have only spoken about the speech in isolation citing precise words, asking for criticism, yet ignore the ongoing narrative which is so right wing, so punishing that words escape me.<br /><br />Dog whistling indeed.<br /><br />No hands down helping up, as Keating was smart enough to demonstrate physically. Gillard can't do that because the times do not suit her. It's a hit in the solar plexus for some. And it could have been handled better.<br /><br />The vision thing? Those times have passed, say some. Notably Possum<br /><br />I call BS on both of you.<br /><br />Analysis is not of one one speech but a building narrative. A preparation for the the next speech, if you like.<br /><br />And I agree the proof will be in the pudding. Bloody long pudding with a longer than ever thought of lead time. I hope she delivers but I just cant see it.<br /><br />Whether this speech was a leak of sorts, a softener so that JG can appear humane come budget delivery, I don't know.<br /><br />There ain't no vision, never has been and I suspect never will be. A sop to the right.<br /><br />Which makes a piss poor speech and deserves no defence.<br /><br />The fact that Abbott called her all talk and no action scares the living shit out of me.<br /><br />That one statement resonates more than 3500 words and that is how it will be reported.<br /><br />Gillard knows that. If she didn't she shouldlapuntadelfinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-17814273361837639202011-04-14T23:32:28.740+10:002011-04-14T23:32:28.740+10:00Grog
Even more of a concern is your lack of progr...Grog<br /><br />Even more of a concern is your lack of progress in your books. You've had Germinal up there for ages! It's the only Zola book I've read although I've got La Bete Humaine on the shelf. Germinal is a great book.Diogenesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-52644357908774760132011-04-14T23:00:27.187+10:002011-04-14T23:00:27.187+10:00Dio - the dog whistle term is greatly over used, a...Dio - the dog whistle term is greatly over used, and wrongly used. Mostly what we get here (and now in the US) is not dog whistling, but "whistling". JG throws in idleness and "everyone needs to pay their way", and boom off goes the media. <br /><br />That's not dog whistling, that's leading the media around by the nose (and geez, it is easy to do).<br /><br />My point is when you read the speech entire, there's a lot more going on. <br /><br />Now sure she needs to back up what she's saying with policy but listen to the Fran Kelly interview - there's no whistling going on at all there, no "tough to be kind" Abbott type bulldust. She talks about kids who are uneducated and need training. Now I know Bill Mitchell may say there are not many of them, but nonetheless that's what she is talking about.<br /><br />My point here is not that the Govt won't cut welfare in some way (I bet they will - I bet there will be many areas that get some cuts), but that there was a lot more happening in this speech than what was reported.<br /><br />If JG truly wants to back up this speech with policy, the Govt cannot just cut welfare, there also needs to be assistance. <br /><br />We'll see in 3 weeks. If it is all cuts I'll bag them then. But unlike the media, I'll wait till I see the actual policy before deciding whether or not it is "tough on welfare cheats"Greg Jerichohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04956402439870441083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-35669370337744995972011-04-14T22:49:24.747+10:002011-04-14T22:49:24.747+10:00Anon yep those lines are much of the same - mutual...Anon yep those lines are much of the same - mutual obligation stuff:<br /><br />“the Government will put improving work incentives in our tax and transfer system” <br /><br />is about cuts only if you want to read it is about cuts - which the media and many others did. Now I will not actually be surprised if there are some changes to the welfare payments (in fact it is pretty obvious there will be) - mostly I suspect of the you need to do this to get this variety - however the speech did not talk punish, but it was reported as such. <br /><br />Let's not put on the rose coloured glasses and think the ALP back in the past was some glorious party of welfare - hell PJK abused the uni protestors in Adelaide by telling them to "get a job". <br /><br />This was an ALP speech. Whenever the an ALP leader mentions welfare and doesn't come across like Mother Theresa they get accused of turning their back on ALP values. Well they've been accused of doing that for as long as I can remember. <br /><br />Sonia, we too can only get the childcare rebate and I also think it will probably be means tested. The only thing that has me thinking they won't is that one move would be VERY unpopular - in fact I think about the most unpopular cut in middle-class welfare they could make - it was a big thing of theirs in 2007. <br /><br />Actually Senexx and AndySHastings, I haven't fallen for NAIRU at all - I just pointed out in historical terms, we ain't going much lower. The world of Chifley and Curtain was a much different place - we're not going back there (and nor do I suspect we would want to - esp when you think of the working entitlements at that time).<br /><br />Fred - Bill Mitchell is always worth a read. <br /><br />Mick you may be right about it looking like Gillard was following Abbott, but I thought it interesting how the journos were trying to get him to agree with her!Greg Jerichohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04956402439870441083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-37841102563056440402011-04-14T22:31:14.024+10:002011-04-14T22:31:14.024+10:00@AndySHastings
Thanks for making my points for me...@AndySHastings<br /><br />Thanks for making my points for me. My rhetoric was a bit more emotional especially concerning underemployment.<br /><br />Sadly Grog has fallen for the mythical NAIRU and the monetarism of the 80s. Additionally I share Skip's concern for Grog about Keating. Except for his Immigration & Aboriginal bent, he was little more than another Howard but before Howard. "Get a job, ya bum." No concept of unemployment whatsoever.<br /><br />Seems I used some emotional rhetoric after all, not nearly as emotional as the first draft though.Senexxhttp://modernmoney.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-68376948796001911472011-04-14T22:13:16.677+10:002011-04-14T22:13:16.677+10:00Meanwhile, back at the ranch, you and Andrew Elder...Meanwhile, back at the ranch, you and Andrew Elder keep me from (metaphorically) slitting my wrists - so thanks to both of you for that small service.jeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-12925746617490352342011-04-14T22:06:58.210+10:002011-04-14T22:06:58.210+10:00Well said Grog. So basically, it doesn't matt...Well said Grog. So basically, it doesn't matter what the PM says the media will report what they want. <br /><br />And when it becomes obvious on budget night that the media have been talking out of their collective bottoms re: welfare, they will accuse her of a backflip and lack of ticker.<br /><br />imaccaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com