tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post5167769065872049716..comments2023-11-05T23:07:01.842+11:00Comments on Grog's Gamut: Carbon Price Catch 22Greg Jerichohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04956402439870441083noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-14248456911308443722011-03-20T01:24:06.611+11:002011-03-20T01:24:06.611+11:00"They also know it is good for them to be see..."They also know it is good for them to be seen to push the Greens around every now and then (or at least that is the theory put forward by more than a few in the media, I’m not so sure)"<br /><br />I'm not so sure either. It goes to her integrity and trust when Gillard on one hand, says the Greens can't be negotiated with, yet on the other is then seen negotiating with them.<br /><br />This isn't just some silly game played out to appease the media. Every-time she calls them an extreme party who can't do deals, it only makes that image of her announcing the Carbon Tax - with the Greens standing next to her - that much worse.<br /><br />She's not selling a consistent message. She's saying "Here I am publicly saying one thing, while behind closed doors I'm doing the exact opposite. Now, can you believe anything I say?"<br /><br />If she then <i>is</i> able to negotiate with the Greens and get this major reform through, she only proves herself to be a liar - and plays right into Tony Abbott's hands.Percolated Fishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-72099654182940866792011-03-19T10:23:04.980+11:002011-03-19T10:23:04.980+11:00It is extraordinary to see the neocons that make u...It is extraordinary to see the neocons that make up the Coalition (of The Ignorant)both fedreally and at State gov't in Victoria stick their fingers in their ears and squeal "nyah nyah nyah we don't believe you" over any scientific evidence they don't like . The list now includes global warming, dangers of the nuclear industry and the impact of grazing cattle in sensitive Alpine areas. The gall of this position is only outdone by Andrew Bolt's incredible clanger that Chernobyl only effected 50 people. <br /><br />When did it become optional to accept fact? And whyTF do the media keep letting them get away with it?? <br />Go Grog.Jennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-63556222982137789492011-03-18T18:40:27.711+11:002011-03-18T18:40:27.711+11:00My suggestion for raising revenue: Let's Tax ...My suggestion for raising revenue: Let's Tax Omissions instead of Emissions and the politicians can foot the bill totally.Fishnet Fantasiesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-24243916774508942802011-03-18T18:34:26.153+11:002011-03-18T18:34:26.153+11:00THE AIR CONDITIONING LINE???? Grog you dissapoint,...THE AIR CONDITIONING LINE???? Grog you dissapoint, scintillating polictics.... I pine for Alexander Downer and that's just downright kinky.Fishnet Fantasiesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-27940031814805642072011-03-18T18:23:39.889+11:002011-03-18T18:23:39.889+11:00Love your work Grog.
A short while ago I seem to ...Love your work Grog.<br /><br />A short while ago I seem to remember the mining tax was announced with a mass of detail and look how well that worked out. <br /><br />From Q&A it was quite apparant that the GST is their model for getting it done right down to the bit where they splinter the greens in place of the democrats (though that's not likely while Bob is around).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-13733373224328767032011-03-18T18:10:01.890+11:002011-03-18T18:10:01.890+11:00And here's Tony Abbott's reaction when the...And here's Tony Abbott's reaction when the carbon tax comes in, he's left holding a s**t sandwich with no plan B and loses the liberal party leadership:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsbYx6hevoQ&NR=1Gordicansnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-31284464606669411142011-03-18T17:33:36.198+11:002011-03-18T17:33:36.198+11:00HISTORY OF CARBON CAP & TRADE
Powerful force...HISTORY OF CARBON CAP & TRADE<br /><br /><br />Powerful forces behind the scenes appear to be orchestrating events to set up and profit from a carbon emissions trading system worth trillions of dollars.<br /><br /><b>The current players are not just ahead of the game. They wrote the rules and designed the playing field. While taking out any opposition.</b><br /><br />In 2000, the Joyce Foundation provided a grant to Richard Sandor and Kellogg School of Management to develop competing carbon trading software. At the time, Barack Obama was on the board of directors for the foundation. This eventually led to the birth of the Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX) the only voluntary emissions reduction and operational cap and trade system in North America.<br /><br /><br />Al Gore, founder of the London-based Generation Investment Management, GIM purchased a huge stake in Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX). GIM is the fifth largest shareholder. Former Vice President Al Gore partnered with people from Goldman Sachs such as David Blood, Mark Ferguson and Peter Harris to name a few. <br /><br />Glen Beck says: “The Obama administration has also instructed the Environmental Protection Agency to declare CO2 a dangerous threat to human health which will lead to regulation of carbon emissions.<br /><br />A patent for such a device was worked on by CO2e.com CEO Carlton Bartels. Shortly after he filed for the patent on his system to trade residential carbon credits, he was killed in the 9/11 attacks. Bartels wife then shopped the idea around and was able to find a buyer Franklin Raines. Who just happened to be the CEO of Fannie Mae at the time. The patent was eventually approved by the U.S. Patent and Trade Office on Nov. 7, 2006 — coincidentally the day after Democrats took control of Congress. So now, Fannie Mae, who is congressionally mandated to “make housing more affordable,” is poised to reap billions on a system that has nothing to do with housing except for that it would make housing costs go up.<br />Remember when Fannie purchased risky mortgages from banks, bundled them together and sold to investors as mortgage-backed securities? And then the housing market was absolutely destroyed? Well, former Fannie VP Scott Lesmes was responsible for that bundling. Now Cantor Fitzgerald own CantorCO2e.com – how convenient.<br /><br />Well, here’s the good news: Not only will this new carbon trading “system” try the exact same bundling method (except with air); they are using the exact same guy: Scott Lesmes.<br />Glen Beck goes onto say: “It’s almost like Goldman is willing to take a little heat now, in order to get a little piece of the $10 trillion green pie later. I challenge the media: Will anyone pick this story up? Will anyone question this and the timing of it all?”<br /><br />Meanwhile in Australia, CCX is a major shareholder along with Macquarie Group Limited (note Malcolm Turnball ex Macquarie Group) and Climate Exchange plc London, of the Sydney based ENVEX chaired by former NSW State Premier Bob Carr. <br /><br />One only has to look at the fallout from the Sub prime mortgage debacle. The creation of CDO’s (collateral Debt obligations) that no-one understood and how it caused over consumption and engineered the Global Financial Crisis. Therefore history is going to repeat itself with a Carbon Trading scheme. <br /><br /><b>The Powers-That-Be (‘Elite’) are building a society that reduces all of its citizens to a common standard of living. The resulting society does not value the individual, their rights or their achievements.</b>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-39093476902517776292011-03-18T14:27:40.381+11:002011-03-18T14:27:40.381+11:00Re what Gillard should really be saying to Abbott ...Re what Gillard should really be saying to Abbott visa vi the current Catch22 scenario, I've been reliably informed that I've misquoted the late and great Charlton Heston in previous quote. The correct quote can be found here:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRG6ahCs_t0Ian Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-74133241569434073632011-03-18T12:19:04.245+11:002011-03-18T12:19:04.245+11:00I like the Catch 22 analogy. The gotcha questions ...I like the Catch 22 analogy. The gotcha questions and gaffe watch style of news media has reduced political debate to a silly game of marketing and second guessing reactions.<br /><br />I'm also reminded of the great Peter Cook movie 'The Rise and Rise of Michael Rimmer' - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPE-vddZ-aA - where a marketing guru takes over the Tories and first bombards the public with referenda and opinion polls, then exploits the confusion to promise 'no more intrusive consultation', and becomes dictator.<br /><br />I don't think anyone on the scene here has the wit or lack of enemies to pull it off, but it seems very prescient.ernmalleyscatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-47638490020604823152011-03-18T11:12:45.847+11:002011-03-18T11:12:45.847+11:00Anytime you hear anyone bang on about Stefanovik’s...<i>Anytime you hear anyone bang on about Stefanovik’s great journalist credibility,</i> ....<br /><br />We weren't in any great danger of this happening, surely? The Today Show went and got credibility as a news program when we weren't looking?<br /><br />I love your work Grog, but the Oz is such a lost cause- why waste time reading it? I'm sure it is toxic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-4823925645590166772011-03-18T09:56:06.364+11:002011-03-18T09:56:06.364+11:00The price per tonne needs to be at least $70, only...The price per tonne needs to be at least $70, only then will we curb dangerous warming and make a nice place for our kids and puppies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-63006433035354847482011-03-18T09:28:13.744+11:002011-03-18T09:28:13.744+11:00Well written Grog.
Loved the Catch 22 analogyWell written Grog.<br />Loved the Catch 22 analogyPersephonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-4482592366835590512011-03-18T03:48:55.909+11:002011-03-18T03:48:55.909+11:00And by the way, government's don't have to...And by the way, government's don't have to sell anything to the public, they just need the votes in both houses of parliament.<br /><br />Why the media trolls want this "selling" they never demand of the lieberals over trifles like illegal wars is beyond me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-30489431395165173702011-03-18T03:47:31.989+11:002011-03-18T03:47:31.989+11:00A PM allowing the shooting of innocent refugees tr...A PM allowing the shooting of innocent refugees trapped in an illegal prison calls the Greens "extreme". Excuse me while I puke.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-67164334985102840182011-03-18T01:53:46.177+11:002011-03-18T01:53:46.177+11:00Mr Tiedt,
We all have to get the message across. ...Mr Tiedt,<br />We all have to get the message across. Why leave it to politicians. It really is more important to explain that severe weather events WILL happen more frequently, and they will shift averages a bit. However as we try to raise money to replace livelihoods for people whose lives have been destroyed during extremely wet, wet seasons, or wild fires during extreme temperature and wind events, we need to consider this could worsen... at least this is what my climate scientist mates tell me. I respect their interpretation of the data they collect, and compare with other world class scientists' data. I don't understand why people refer to this like religion ... something they can choose to believe in. Who believes they are not sick, when they have a full-blown flu? A stoic optimist, perhaps.Lulunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-7273387387022519572011-03-17T23:04:51.300+11:002011-03-17T23:04:51.300+11:00You're quite good at thisYou're quite good at thisfirstdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16408702852668703017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-91074736038150251342011-03-17T22:57:17.127+11:002011-03-17T22:57:17.127+11:00Greg,
You always cut so well to the pragmatic hea...Greg,<br /><br />You always cut so well to the pragmatic heart of the issues.<br /><br />The hysteria over details is astounding! That the Greens might pull out over a three-year compensation package. That the Opposition is in hysterics over the fact that the trading scheme will be fixed price (read "tax") for two years. Jeez!<br /><br />In fifty year's time - who will care about the details surrounding the establishment of he scheme? It's minutia.Adam Rosalkynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-72333838457435994062011-03-17T22:17:55.645+11:002011-03-17T22:17:55.645+11:00Pity the poor punter as he watches the harlequinad...Pity the poor punter as he watches the harlequinade in Canberra. A mere week after the happy family snap with aunt Julia, uncle Bob, aunt Christine, and adopted children Rob and Tony all smiling at their own broadmindedness we are now told Bob and Christine have been airbrushed out of the picture.Sir Ian Crispnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-34682177310897463532011-03-17T22:10:40.886+11:002011-03-17T22:10:40.886+11:00What hasn't been said anywhere is how much fun...What hasn't been said anywhere is how much fun politics is at the moment. <br /><br />Remember years of mind numbing predictable boredome and drudgery under Howard and poor old Kim Beazely? In comparison to then, what's going on is electric. <br /><br />What would add poignancy to the current debate now would be if Gillard were to say to Abbott:<br /><br />"get away from me you damned dirty monkey"Ian Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-45912955860021342722011-03-17T21:53:41.867+11:002011-03-17T21:53:41.867+11:00Greg, I agree with your premise that the ALP has a...Greg, I agree with your premise that the ALP has a catch 22 problem, but I only think Labor has itself to blame for this not the media. No hard earned policy is without difficulties, better politicians recognise the cul de sac before they get in it. <br /><br />And I think your being disingenuous with offering JG no blame for her creating in the minds of many, probably most that China was drawing down coal fire power plants and using wind instead. She is not as silly as you make out to book end a statement like she did with those two facts without knowing how some will fill it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-36326157125435580092011-03-17T21:52:15.697+11:002011-03-17T21:52:15.697+11:00The steam will go out of the argument against the ...The steam will go out of the argument against the carbon tax. Its hard to maintain that kind of rage. You are so right Grog. However Labor announced the Carbon tax they would have gotten flack. I trust Combet to be able to sell it. I watched Garnaut today and his belief that half of all the money raised should go back to ushelp shouldSoniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02129398639035921852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-21509188434968490542011-03-17T21:22:17.298+11:002011-03-17T21:22:17.298+11:00As usual, your writing is brilliant Greg (I LOVE t...As usual, your writing is brilliant Greg (I LOVE the catch-22 bit) but I'm going to have to, for once, disagree with your analysis. I think Drag0nista hit this one on the head earlier on.<br /><br />Labor was always going to cop flack for a Carbon Tax, and it was always going to cost Gillard political capital. Most of the criticism she has copped has been the usual shrill rubbish, and Abbott has accepted so much sympathetic coverage he must be thinking that this politics business is pretty easy, but I think Gillard has made some mistakes that she will regret.<br /><br />Most of the flack has been undeserved - but not all of it. Labor could have sold this better - and we may all suffer if ultimately they do not succeed.Mr Tiedthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17655292171719390972noreply@blogger.com