tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post8792991883835067915..comments2023-11-05T23:07:01.842+11:00Comments on Grog's Gamut: The Asylum Debate–No edification, but lots of soul destructionGreg Jerichohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04956402439870441083noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-84709942984851174142011-05-10T23:45:41.788+10:002011-05-10T23:45:41.788+10:00Mr Rabbits mob, under the John W regime did it. No...Mr Rabbits mob, under the John W regime did it. Now Joolya and her mob want to do it. <b>Out Source Responsibility</b> for boat people. Both big party`s should decide to get behind the Humanitarian Treaties we have signed. Or ditch them. Stop the International grand standing. Or stop the homeland bigotry and cruelty. <b>I am sick of boat people football.</b>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-60709440801719619272011-05-10T17:17:03.942+10:002011-05-10T17:17:03.942+10:00"Anonymous said...
I can't believe the pr..."Anonymous said...<br />I can't believe the prominance boat arrivals has in our society when they represent less than 2% of our annual migration. One can only conclude that it is due to racism and xenaphobia"<br /><br />I don't agree. While there are obviously racist elements in Australia, it's not really true of our political class, and popular concern seems far less tide to who or how many are coming as the manner they are. <br /><br />Both the Hawke/Keating and Howard governments increased overall immigration numbers without much popular concern because they had demonstrated a form of control over the borders. That control of sovereignty is what the political class seeks, and what the racist/xenophobic elements play off to get a wider attention.<br /><br />Remove that challenge (as the Malaysian deal could lead to, or better yet a proper regional processing centre) and the issue can return to being a minor concern, rather than the wildly out-of-perspective blow up it is these days.Andrew Carrhttp://lowyinterpreter.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-71090664854646868802011-05-10T15:35:42.959+10:002011-05-10T15:35:42.959+10:00Well deserved kudos on media watch mate.Well deserved kudos on media watch mate.BennOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-14319915977553934802011-05-10T13:30:47.995+10:002011-05-10T13:30:47.995+10:00I can't believe the prominance boat arrivals h...I can't believe the prominance boat arrivals has in our society when they represent less than 2% of our annual migration. One can only conclude that it is due to racism and xenaphobia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-31433872514225246482011-05-10T13:05:49.708+10:002011-05-10T13:05:49.708+10:00I am also pretty sure Bob Brown was being ironic.
...I am also pretty sure Bob Brown was being ironic.<br /><br />Great post as usual Grog, thank you for presenting these issues in such a clear way.Rhiannonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-25048580180760036382011-05-10T12:47:51.718+10:002011-05-10T12:47:51.718+10:00Three points:
1) Jones is wrong to claim we get th...Three points:<br />1) Jones is wrong to claim we get their 'worst'. We are getting 4000 refugee's who have been confirmed through the UNHCR. <br />2) My understanding is that the 800 will be released into the Malaysian community. Once the deal is in place, the Australian Government ought to be held to a high standard for how these people fare, though hopefully this could see increased conditions for all Malaysian asylum seekers (in the same way Australia has already been helping Indonesia improve its treatment of asylum seekers and refugees).<br /><br />3)Long term, something like this deal could be the way we solve the issue. In return for our neighbours stopping boats leaving for Australian shores (Which is a problem of both sovereignty and a humanitarian nightmare given the sea crossing), Australia agree (as a rich, lowly populated country) to take an increased share of refugees. I've begun to make the case here: (http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2011/05/09/Solving-the-asylum-seeker-problem.aspx) that this is how we will once and for all 'solve' the issue. The specifics in this case are obviously rushed and could easily break down, but in outline, this is a policy approach that could work.Andrew Carrhttp://lowyinterpreter.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-54350985235948790622011-05-10T12:46:59.110+10:002011-05-10T12:46:59.110+10:00Can we send Alan Jones to Malaysia as our "wo...Can we send Alan Jones to Malaysia as our "worst refugee'?Monica's wicked stepmothernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-71956892327080780062011-05-10T10:36:33.027+10:002011-05-10T10:36:33.027+10:00Since both sides of politics would like to pretend...Since both sides of politics would like to pretend all this tough love on asylum seekers is purely based on concerns for their safety arriving by leaky boats, not latent racism, I am curious what if those queue jumpers hire a luxury yacht and sail to our shore in the safest way possible? What if they are white farmers from Zimbabwe (imagine the uproar in the tabloid frontpage)? And how did those existing refugees in Malaysian camps got there in the first place? Not by taxi I presume? Mostly by boats too? Why is arriving by boat in Malaysia more legitimate than in Australia?hannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-91042115459384676602011-05-10T10:21:07.672+10:002011-05-10T10:21:07.672+10:00Always enjoy your posts Greg.
Am I the only one t...Always enjoy your posts Greg.<br /><br />Am I the only one that had a problem with the naming of the programs? "Pacific solution" - I mena how mush does this sound like "Final solution" a certain national socialist party had in the mid 20th century. (Sorry - Godwin's Law)It's just that it always bothered me...Freduardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15718129686975029488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-84535315745314865312011-05-10T10:08:15.361+10:002011-05-10T10:08:15.361+10:00Fact # 1, you insert the quote:
'Malaysian im...Fact # 1, you insert the quote:<br /> 'Malaysian immigration officials continued to sell deportees to gangs of traffickers operating along the Thailand-Malaysia border. The gangs paid from $250 to $500 per deportee. The traffickers demanded fees of 1,400 to 3,000 ringgit (about $400 to $860) to smuggle the deportees back into Malaysia. They typically sold those who could not pay (perhaps 20 percent), the men onto fishing boats, the women into brothels, and the children to gangs that exploit child beggars.'<br /> However, to state the bleedin' obvious, which has occurred to me, but seems not to have occurred to you in your fervour to make your point, the 'deportees' that that extract speaks of, are deportees from Malaysia, NOT from Australia. Malaysia has agreed NOT TO DEPORT Australian 'deportees'. So the emotional point about the 'child beggars' et al., is kinda moot.<br /> Fact#2: You complain about the beatings etc. that refugees receive in the detention centres. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that the Austarlian government has negotiated for the Australian deportees to not be placed into those camps upon return to Malaysia. They will be free in the community, as far as I can understand. Now, if you have some horror stories about refugees abroad in the community in Malaysia, under the auspices of the UNHCR, with shelter and living expenses being provided by the government, of being picked on, raped, whatever, then that's a different story. And let's have it.Victoriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12850659738502789103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-62932243501341058842011-05-10T10:01:21.423+10:002011-05-10T10:01:21.423+10:00The hatefulness and sheer bloody-mindedness of asy...The hatefulness and sheer bloody-mindedness of asylum seeker policy from both the major parties shames us all.<br /><br />There is no humanity, no compassion, no seeking to articulate the truth of the matter.<br /><br />Way back when I was actually working for Immigration on processing asylum seeker claims (a long past life), the first inklings of this hatefulness were beginning; the start seems to have been Tiananmen Square and unrest in Fiji.<br /><br />While Australian policy has never been great in this regard, there were times it was very much better. I await the day (with little hope) a politician in a major party exhibits the spine to say what we really should be doing and how we really should be treating desperate people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-28439037261234688892011-05-10T08:27:20.527+10:002011-05-10T08:27:20.527+10:00"You read it here first folks". There yo..."You read it here first folks". There you go Grog - your new motto. At the beginning of Media Watch I was thinking "well someone else agrees with Grog" but it was more than that! Well done Grog. As to today's topic - after listening to a couple of the "enlightened" in my office declaim on the appropriate uses for an asylum seeker I have decided to find a nice hole to bunker myself in till the sheer lunacy has retreated a little. I should be out in about 50 years.<br />Cheers<br />CatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-83386428834125802042011-05-10T07:19:56.327+10:002011-05-10T07:19:56.327+10:00I'm almost lost for words. That short fall to ...I'm almost lost for words. That short fall to the bottom of the barrel was more painful than I could have imagined. Then I realised the barrel has no bottom. Its just an endless void. Mob mentality is an ugly thing.<br />If I were an asylum seeker considering the dangerous trip to Australia I would hope that Tony Abbott's solution was the one in place. It's previous success record for asylum seekers would be an incentive not a disincentive. How they can keep arguing for its return without being called on the obvious realities and outcomes is a sad reflection on our sub par media and their love of conflict and pandering to their audience rather than objective, investigative news. When did news become what people want to hear rather than reality?<br />On another, well sort of, note. On the weekend I watched a story on Channel 10 about Mr Wakil, a former asylum seeker, finally getting the surfing lesson with Mr Abbott that he had won in a charity auction. I was disgusted when the reporter refered to Mr Wakil, now an Australian citizen, as a former illegal. Our reporters know better than this and if they don't their in the wrong occupation. How dare they refer to Mr Wakil, a proven geninue asylum seeker, as an illegal when they know it is not true.kazannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-31389977203640960572011-05-10T05:15:44.505+10:002011-05-10T05:15:44.505+10:00Shame on you Greg, we can trust every word Gillard...Shame on you Greg, we can trust every word Gillard says. If she says that the Malaysian government will treat every asylum seeker sent from Australia with the utmost care of course they will, just as she promised that no government she leads will introduce a tax on carbon (she's doing a fab job of selling the carbon price so badly that it will never get up).<br /><br />Now that we have struck such a fantastic 5:1 deal with Malaysia I expect similar deals to follow. We could deport one of our criminals to Thailand in return for five of theirs, or sell a tone of uranium to India in return for five tonnes of their nuclear waste - the deal just makes total sense!<br /><br />In seriousness, this is probably such a tough deal that it will probably work to deter some asylum seekers (who access Australian news and are aware of where the people smugglers are taking them) - due to the horrendous conditions they would face in Malaysia.<br /><br />It is so tough on human rights that, well, asylum seekers may be regarded as having no rights at all in Australia by proxy.<br /><br />Basically it all gets down to whether the government is more concerned about leaky boats or leaky votes.<br /><br />If the government was truly focused on the risk of people dying in leaky boats, it could simply provide a subsidized ferry service from Indonesia and drive the people smugglers out of the business by removing their profitability.<br /><br />However if the government's main concern is dying from leaky votes, I think this policy might just win a few - from the right and in the short term.<br /><br />It does nothing to put a finger in the dyke for traditional labor voters and will cause further long-term harm to the Labor party, to the benefit of the Greens.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-31088444517391841892011-05-10T03:37:35.487+10:002011-05-10T03:37:35.487+10:00I think Bob was being ironic with the queue jumper...I think Bob was being ironic with the queue jumper thing.<br /><br />What has not been mentioned anywhere is that it is all very well demanding that Malaysia not refoule refugees but we would have already done that.<br /><br />Because people are always presumed to be refugees when they apply so we will be deliberately sending 800 people into a terrible situation to send some deluded message to people somewhere out there who are not listening.<br /><br />And of course to the racists here.<br />We have only ever seen one family of kids forcibly deported from this country and there are still millions traumatised by it.<br /><br />Who can forget the face of 6 year old Amina, my baby who had begged me to shoot her if they wanted to deport her to Pakistan, staring out of the plane in the dead of night surrounding by dozens of prison guards like she was a mass murderer.<br /><br />4 days in transit lounges, a night in the snows of Rawalipindi, forced deportation home to Afghanistan and a winter in Kabul in one room where the family only survived because decent Aussies raised $40,000 in 2 days for them.<br /><br />Both of the major parties have leaders who should be flogged and then sent home because we have enough of our own racists without these two poms.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-89700709964124946302011-05-09T23:49:18.772+10:002011-05-09T23:49:18.772+10:00I second the congratulations re Media Watch mentio...I second the congratulations re Media Watch mention.<br /><br />Long may you prosper, we, the plebs out here starved for infornation and intelligent analysis, appreciate your work.<br /><br />fredAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-48749066729065709062011-05-09T22:52:33.653+10:002011-05-09T22:52:33.653+10:00Cheers anon. Thanks. Good pointsCheers anon. Thanks. Good pointsGreg Jerichohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04956402439870441083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-53797464381592064322011-05-09T22:39:37.594+10:002011-05-09T22:39:37.594+10:00There is no policy that better epitomises the stan...There is no policy that better epitomises the standard of Australian politics than immigration. You blog quite neatly sums up the evidence why.<br /><br />On a different note, I was OK with "operationalise" - it was "irregular maritime arrivals" that made me chuckle...Mr Tiedthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17655292171719390972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-91371197231787138802011-05-09T22:35:14.372+10:002011-05-09T22:35:14.372+10:00Why do politicians all just want to appear to be t...Why do politicians all just want to appear to be tough? Because, being tough means you have to have someone else to be tough on, which in turn means demonising someone (usually someone who can't vote and the voters hate).<br /><br />This sounds like random punishment ie. we can't send all of you back, so we'll randomnly choose some of you, you will never be sure.ASLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09828793956600391895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-3357737999736374532011-05-09T22:23:10.130+10:002011-05-09T22:23:10.130+10:00Great plug for you tonight on Media Watch.I felt v...Great plug for you tonight on Media Watch.I felt very proud to be a regular reader and respondent to your blog.Hopefully more people will read you to get a factual and unbiased account of what is going on in Australia.Of course existing readers know how great you are at getting to the heart of an issue as once again you have demonstrated tonight with your ongoing analysis of the asylum seeker issues. Once again I now feel completely ashamed to be an Australian. What happens when the 801st person is a minor child??? How could the party I have voted for all of my life have got it so wrong?And as I've said before if we don't get it right with the children we are going to reap the rewards of very angry adults in the not too distant future.Not something Australia needs to look forward to.emjarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-44085414178562042702011-05-09T21:58:10.908+10:002011-05-09T21:58:10.908+10:00Yeh its so depressing. Combining the new people sm...Yeh its so depressing. Combining the new people smuggling laws in Indonesia and the prospect of a trip to Malaysia it might lead to a reduction in numbers arriving but jeez I pity the poor bastards who end up in Malaysia. Should also shut all those up who complain about queue jumpers. <br />Surprise surprise the co-aolition is againstSoniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02129398639035921852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-51850188225819188062011-05-09T21:48:22.958+10:002011-05-09T21:48:22.958+10:00Just a quick comment on the 16,000 figure at the b...Just a quick comment on the 16,000 figure at the bottom. That is the total figure for the Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme (RSMS) and associated visas. It is not the total skilled migration program - only visas where regional employers sponsor skilled migrants. This is a 60% increase from last year. The total skilled migration perminent program will probably be closer to 150,000 judging from previous years. <br /><br />Those RSMS visas in particular are probably not going to be used for mining companies, as they typically use 457s (temporary business visas)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8434369190746987531.post-75138692800659729012011-05-09T21:38:49.277+10:002011-05-09T21:38:49.277+10:00Grog's Gamut inspires a whole Media Watch show...Grog's Gamut inspires a whole Media Watch show tonight. Holy Celebrity Batman!Paul Kerseynoreply@blogger.com